1. If Spirits or intelligences are without beginning, and God has always been God, and Time is Infinite, within time there has already been an infinite amount of time passed and yet we are only now going through the plan of Salvation. Wouldn’t we have already gone through it if an infinite amount of time has passed? What cannot be accomplished in an infinite amount of time?
2. God via self-effort question: If Spirits are without beginning, Time is Infinite, and God Developed himself to be God via self-effort and obedience, it took him forever(an infinite amount of time) to do this. How can God ever reach the time where he is who he is, if it takes forever to get there? If it takes something forever to reach it, do we really ever reach it?
3. The infinite process of Gods question: If spirits are without beginning and God became God by going through a process just like we are now, even down to the fact that he had a God like we do, and his God had a God, etc etc. God had to wait forever for his God to make him God, so how can God now be God if it takes him forever to become such?
4. If God’s existence has no beginning and no end within time and is compared as Joseph Smith taught compared with a ring, as one eternal round, would we not at some point come full circle and start progression all over again? Yet, if it takes forever to come full circle do we ever get there?
Time is really the problematic factor!
Therefore for our beliefs to really work out and be true the way we know it, time cannot exist for God at all the way we understand it. Past, present and future must always be before him. In reality Time is not infinite. Perhaps a theory of a series of infinite periods of finite time can extinguish some frustration. Who knows?
As far as mathematics go, could we be living over and over at a state of zero, where all is behind us and all is ahead of us. Zero isn’t a beginning, just a point at the present. All negative numbers leave an infinite amount of time before and there’s an infinite amount of positive numbers ahead. The present is like forever being at point zero numerically. If we are constantly at point zero time is not linear but in a sense circular like the example of Joseph’s ring. We move with time. I tend to be in favor of this. Time may exist but we are not bound by it. We are a point on the ring and the ring moves with us. It has no beginning and no end. We still move, live, progress but “all” will always be behind us and in front of us making both sides endless.
Saying something is beginningless is not the same thing as saying time has always existed. Also there could be an infinite number of finite segments. I think I’ve heard that used as an excuse/explanation for why the Bible says “In the beginning” (ignoring of course Joseph’s re-translation). It also fits in perfectly with the idea of causality. Another option is that time for God (and spirits, etc) is defined in relative terms of causality. That is, there doesn’t need to be any concept of hours/days/years etc. but rather indefinite periods of time between notable events. That also links back to the creation story (and doesn’t ignore Joseph’s retranslation).
At point zero we still exist, and to exist, some form of time must be passing. “I think, therefore I am”
The answer to all of this is of course in what lies behind all revealed understanding. What lies behind space and time? Are there unknowns for all life and existence even in what we know as heaven and eternity?
One simple outrageous theory I made up and pondered upon is in the following diagram:
Follow link to view a larger image: http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2003344172848300689
What is the Matrix? It’s the question that drives us. We are looking for it. Most of us have seen the movie “The Matrix” and it is not what I’m suggesting at all. I’m suggesting a type of Matrix may be possible, though I really don’t believe it. Matrix, an originally latin word now taken into numerous languages, is derived from "mater" (mother). The Mother of everything, feeding all things flowing from her source. The Matrix. Of course this is a crazy idea founded on absolutley nothing, but my mind loves to ponder upon the unknowns and great possibilties. Also I love the complexity of it all, I love the movie too.
I’m confused enough by the idea of infinity as to say it may not exist as we think it does. (refer to a previous post “beginningless”) You can come up with all kinds of mysteries and paradoxes pondering it. While I am perhaps completely wrong in saying this, I think the possibility of a finite mind beginning to comprehend infinity is about equal to a finite number divided by infinity. Therefore I believe as mortals we are not equipped to define infinity, only God can define it. What I am saying is, that if it is possible for God to define it, it could be in a sense finite to him, since it is knowable to him.
I have a headache now!
Any ideas or insights?
How could agency, laws, and sin affect the whole spectrum?