Is Cain still alive? Is he amongst the current inhabitants of this earth?
Myth, confirmed fact, or only plausible?
In the Old Testament we learn that after Cain killed Abel, a “curse” was laid on him, (no priesthood for posterity) and also that he shall have a unique mark, so that people will know and recognize him, and that he should be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth. The question is: Is Cain still alive? Is he amongst the current inhabitants of this earth?
Let’s refer to the scripture found in Genesis 4:11-15—
“And now thou art cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother’s blood from thy hand; When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth. And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me. And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.”
Two things about this passage: 1) The passage does not say nor mean that Cain would never die. A mark was placed on Cain so that he would not be murdered in some sort of revenge for what he had done. That mark was a blessing to Cain in order to preserve his life, but the mark was not designed to extend life beyond the normal span. What was the mark? It could be several things, but all we know from Joseph Smith was that a black skin was placed upon him at that time. 2) In the above verses it seems as though both the Lord and Cain are using the name of Cain in a generic sense. They are not talking only about Cain the individual, but indeed the family, including the descendants of Cain. This is first apparent from Cain’s statement that every one that findeth me shall slay me. If he were speaking of himself alone, he would not have used the phrase every one that findeth me, which implies multiple findings and multiple slayings. Also the Lord doesn’t say, “whosoever slayeth thee” he says, “whosever slayeth Cain” even though he is talking right to him. The name Cain is almost used kind of like a last name or a family name in this context.
Let’s consider the writings from the lost book of Jasher.
(Jasher 2:26-30)
"And Lamech was old and advanced in years, and his eyes were dim that he could not see, and Tubal Cain, his son, was leading him and it was one day that Lamech went into the field and Tubal Cain his son was with him, and whilst they were walking in the field, Cain the son of Adam advanced towards them; for Lamech was very old and could not see much, and Tubal Cain his son was very young. And Tubal Cain told his father to draw his bow, and with the arrows he smote Cain, who was yet far off, and he slew him, for he appeared to them to be an animal. And the arrows entered Cain's body although he was distant from them, and he fell to the ground and died. And the Lord requited Cain's evil according to his wickedness, which he had done to his brother Abel, according to the word of the Lord which he had spoken. And it came to pass when Cain had died, that Lamech and Tubal went to see the animal which they had slain, and they saw, and behold Cain their grandfather was fallen dead upon the earth. And Lamech was very much grieved at having done this, and in clapping his hands together he struck his son and caused his death."
If these writings are true, then Cain is definitely dead. Question is, can we use the book of Jasher as a viable source to weigh these type of mysteries? Not really, since it is not scripture, and a questionable source for truth.
A similar legend is preserved in the pseudepigraphic Second Book of Adam and Eve, Chapter XIII; in this version Tubal-Cain is not named, but is instead referred to as "the young shepherd." After Lamech claps his hands he strikes the young shepherd on the head. To ensure his death, he then smashed his head with a rock.
An excerpt from Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, p.127-128
"On the sad character Cain, an interesting story comes to us from Lycurgus A. Wilson's book on the life of David W. Patten. From the book I quote an extract from a letter by Abraham O. Smoot giving his recollection of David Patten's account of meeting "a very remarkable person who had represented himself as being Cain."As I was riding along the road on my mule I suddenly noticed a very strange personage walking beside me…. His head was about even with my shoulders as I sat in my saddle. He wore no clothing, but was covered with hair. His skin was very dark. I asked him where he dwelt and he replied that he had no home, that he was a wanderer in the earth and traveled to and fro. He said he was a very miserable creature, that he had earnestly sought death during his sojourn upon the earth, but that he could not die, and his mission was to destroy the souls of men. About the time he expressed himself thus, I rebuked him in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by virtue of the Holy Priesthood, and commanded him to go hence, and he immediately departed out of my sight.”
If this story is true, then can we assume Cain is still living and is perhaps like a Yeti?
This line is interesting, “he immediately departed out of my sight.” Does departed in this line mean walk or ran away, or does it mean vanished into thin air?
This story of Patten’s comes from the journal of Abraham Smoot. He was an early pro-slavery member who was a slave holder himself. This story in his journal is linked to his ideas of black slaves and the supposed curse of Cain. His journal was written some 20-30 years later after the events have happened, and most of his stories are second and third hand accounts which he was not witnesses too. It’s not usually good practice when relating history to use third hand accounts as evidence to events. So the validity of this story is in deep question. In fact his journal is always taken as a suspicious source for history. Abraham Smoot's journal is never taken very seriously by LDS historians. He is also the same guy who recorded the third hand story of Joseph and the angel and polygamy. He is the one who accounts the story that Joseph did not want to practice polygamy, but an angel came with a flaming sword and threatened to kill him if he did not practice polygamy. Like many of Smoot's tales they are seen as fictional and hearsay by many LDS historians, but his tales stick in our culture probably because of the mysterious and mythical stories that they are, and that we love to tell them.
It is interesting that the Three Nephites and John are all specifically told, promised, they will be around until and for the second coming, Cain is not.
Gen 4:15 "Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him."
If Cain could not be killed God would not have added the warning that whoever killed him would have his vengeance. Cain may still be alive and wandering, or he may be a spirit that is still wandering. Also like in David W. Patten case, it would not be the first time an apostle has been approached by an emissary of the devil in spirit.Another thought to ponder would be, if he has been killed would his spirit be cursed to wander here, or would he go to Spirit Prison to await Judgement Day?
If he was truly wandering still, and not in spirit prison, could that be the type of death he was seeking? Yet, isn’t the spirit world among us anyway, we just can’t see it? It might be possible I guess for him to be a spirit but not yet in prison. Almost as if he is trapped between the two worlds. In a sense that is prison anyway.
In the statement, “Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain” seems to be implying that it is possible to kill Cain.
Perhaps some more insight can be taken from Moses chapter 5. Also this chapter sheds some light on the book of Jasher and may enhance the validity of it.
(Moses 5)
39 Behold thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the Lord, and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that he that findeth me will slay me, because of mine iniquities, for these things are not hid from the Lord.
40 And I the Lord said unto him: Whosoever slayeth thee, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And I the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
41 And Cain was shut out from the presence of the Lord, and with his wife and many of his brethren dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
42 And Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bare Enoch, and he also begat many sons and daughters. And he builded a city, and he called the name of the city after the name of his son, Enoch.
43 And unto Enoch was born Irad, and other sons and daughters. And Irad begat Mahujael, and other sons and daughters. And Mahujael begat Methusael, and other sons and daughters. And Methusael begat Lamech.
44 And Lamech took unto himself two wives; the name of one being Adah, and the name of the other, Zillah.
45 And Adah bare Jabal; he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and they were keepers of cattle; and his brother’s name was Jubal, who was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.
46 And Zillah, she also bare Tubal Cain, an instructor of every artificer in brass and iron. And the sister of Tubal Cain was called Naamah.
47 And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah: Hear my voice, ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech; for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt.
48 If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech shall be seventy and seven fold;
49 For Lamech having entered into a covenant with Satan, after the manner of Cain, wherein he became Master Mahan, master of that great secret which was administered unto Cain by Satan; and Irad, the son of Enoch, having known their secret, began to reveal it unto the sons of Adam;
50 Wherefore Lamech, being angry, slew him, not like unto Cain, his brother Abel, for the sake of getting gain, but he slew him for the oath’s sake.
51 For, from the days of Cain, there was a secret combination, and their works were in the dark, and they knew every man his brother.
52 Wherefore the Lord cursed Lamech, and his house, and all them that had covenanted with Satan; for they kept not the commandments of God, and it displeased God, and he ministered not unto them, and their works were abominations, and began to spread among all the sons of men. And it was among the sons of men.
53 And among the daughters of men these things were not spoken, because that Lamech had spoken the secret unto his wives, and they rebelled against him, and declared these things abroad, and had not compassion;
54 Wherefore Lamech was despised, and cast out, and came not among the sons of men, lest he should die.
55 And thus the works of darkness began to prevail among all the sons of men.
Could this scripture be suggesting that it was Cain and Tubal Cain that Lamech Killed just as the book of Jasher accounts? He also made a secret combination and oath with Satan.
I think it's more than likely he died physically at some point before the flood or at least at that point in time. Scriptures seem to be pointing this out. Patten’s story could be false all together given the source, but even if it is true, Cain could have just as well only been a Spirit at the time.
So… Is Cain still roaming the earth as a physical living being? I would say no. It seems more Myth than plausible and definitely not a confirmed fact. I believe he died long ago before the flood or in it.
What do you think about it?
This topic of course is not very important for us to have an understanding of, but even still I find it fascinating.
70 comments:
Maybe yes maybe not. Based only in canonical-scriptures it seems He died, but it's not definitive. If the conclusion were obvious only by the Scriptures, why Kimball seems believe contrary to this?
Many Thanks for your intelligence and insight. I am trying to write on the subject and you make good points. It's refreshing to find a Mormon someone who can inquire without apology, critique without contention, and break rank with the militants of conformity. I look forward to your next post.
"militants of conformity"? Pulleeease!
Great post! You have a lot of insight that is very interesting. I've been wondering this same question, and trying to find a connection (if any) between Cain and "Bigfoot". I totally didn't even think about the flood happening after Cain, so he would have had to have died in at least the flood. You rocked this topic! Thanks.
I'm not sure I see a reason why he would have had to die in the flood. If God went out of his way to place a mark on Cain so no one would kill him, why would God himself kill him?
True that it is possible for God to have preserved him through the flood, but still with all other supporting facts it seems very unlikley. Also refer to the following scripture: Gen 7:21-23
21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
In all can we say it's conclusive? I'm still not sure what to really think.
Of course there have been many in the scriptures that have died and been brought back either by prophets, apostles, or in the stories of Jesus. They were most certainly dead but did come back to life. Perhaps that is the worst part of the curse, never being able to find rest.
Ok, I am pretty sure that Cain is in fact alive, because death is a being (not a state), and just like you and me, it can be punished. And just like in the end of days, if you read the bible, it states that death will escape from us all, thus lenghtning our existance, the same could be said for Cain, death would also avoid him not to slay him.
I'm not sure I follow exactly what you are trying to say? Death as a being not a state? You have me confused. You're not sugesting a grim reaper now are you? Yes, it is true that those who have died physically are very much still alive in the spirit world in their spiritual bodies. I'm not sure how you are applying this to Cain. I think we said that it's possible he still wanders the earth among us but in a spiritual body being trapped here in a sense. Yet it still isn't completly ruled out that he may yet still be alive physically somehow, just very unlikely.
One of my institute teachers brought up a good point when one of my fellow students asked about this. He brought up the point that for a mortal body to escape death, it must be changed through translation (such as the three Nephites). The Lord would never grant such a gift to someone who has broken his commandments, it is reserved for those who are righteous. Therefore my teacher concluded that Cain would have lived a normal mortal life and would have eventually died.
Resurrected beings,umembodied spirits (Unborn into mortality yet), translated beings, the righteous dead in the spirit world / spirit prison / 3 degrees of glory or levels of righteousness, the wicked dead in hell / outer darkness / angels of god and angels of Satan plus us humans with our immortal spirits that can never die. All different kinds of beings on this earth in their own individual realms of existence can and have come through the veil to our world. How do you know Cain has not been resurrected or translated or some how made an immortal with his perfected eternal body. We are all to be resurrected. Does it really matter when? Past or Future
It does matter when! Only the rightous take part in the first resurection, and that is still yet to be entirely completed. Cain was not rightous, therefore was not resurected at the time of Christ's resurection. He will have to wait. Maybe he still wanders around this earth as a spirit and so in this sense no one can truly kill Cain; for the simple fact that he is already dead. The fact is we just don't know. I don't agree with the translated idea either. I don't ever recall in the scriptures where there were evil doers being made translated. By the way, I think russell really means transfigued, not translated. The three nephites were transfigured in some way, not translated.
This is just a side note. There is a difference between translationa and transfiguration. Transfiguration is a more temporary state - such as in the transfirguration on the mount. Translation is more permanaent and if you look up translated beings in the topical guide, the three nephites are included see. http://scriptures.lds.org/en/tg/t/139 . I agree with what Gunner said - Cain probably still does appear, but in spirit form. We know from D&C that evil spirits can come to mortals and may even appear to have a body (thus we are told to ask to shake their hands D&C 129: 4, 7-8).
Has that "shaking hands" thing ever been used by anyone, because I've never heard of it outside of this scripture?
I find it rather strange. Of course I haven't personally had any such oportunities to use it.lol
I wonder if Lamech killed Cain and took the curs to himself so he could roam the earth in the the temporal power of darkness. God said "Whosoever slayeth thee, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold". That might explain why the three nephites, John and the three Prophet that will rise after their dead three days. That totals seven good to avenge one bad.
Here is another good site to check out about this topic.
http://www.askgramps.org/is-cain-still-alive-is-he-amongst-the-current-inhabitants/
No livro Milagre do Perdão, de Spencer W. Kimball, diz que Um Apóstolo moderno viu Caim! Porem devemos fazer uma pergunta: Caim é e foi somente um homem ou um tiulo, assim como mestre maâ? memso porque lameque virou mestre maã, como conta o livro de Moises.
Thanks for your comment but I'll need a translation.
"And Cain said: Truly I am Mahan, the master of this great secret [all these things are done in secret], that I may murder and get gain. Wherefore Cain was called Master Mahan, and he gloried in his wickedness." As we know, he killed his brother by a conspiracy. He formed an organization, we learn in the [Pearl of Great Price]. When he killed [Abel] he gloried in what he had done and was not ashamed. Why? Because he said, now I'm rich, and being rich will make me free. Verse 33: "Â…I am free; surely the flocks of my brother falleth into my hands [I'll get his flocks, and I'm rich]. And the Lord said unto Cain: Where is Abel, thy brother?" So Cain became a fugitive and a vagabond and went to the land of Nod. That's the same as our word nod. When you nod you go back and forth. You wander and don't have any center. So, the land of Nod is the land of the migrants, the land of the everlasting wanderer. That is the curse that Cain is under.
I think we can all agree he is a wanderer of some sort, it is his form and current location which is in question. There is no more evidence that I can find to suggest one thing over another. This is truly an unsolved speculated mystery of our scriptures and history.
I thought their was also an account of Parley P. Pratt meeting Cain on the trail in the Autobiography of Parley P. Pratt. But the Patten account sounds like it. Can you verify if this is correct.
Yeah, that is a fairly common misconception that it was Parley who saw Cain, but it was indeed Patten. The story is found in "The Miracle of forgivness" by Spencer W. Kimball.
Alrighty, here's some scriptures to answer some things.
First- Cain resurrected? impossible. Anyone going to the telestial kingdom or outer darkness is not resurrected until the end of the millenium. And he is in that group.
Or translated? Nope, he is said to suffer correct? According to 3 Nephi 28:9, those who are translated do not feel pain or suffering.
Second- is Cain already in outer darkness? Nope, not even Satan is there yet, Rev 12:9, Satan and his angels are here on the earth. At the end of Revelations 19 we find that after all the judgement is done that the sons of perdition will be cast out into outer darkness(or lake of fire).
-As for sons of perdition, the phrase is not used in the scriptures until John 17:12 refering to Judas. D&C 76:31-32 explains who they are, and yes Cain is one of them.
Third- Is Cain in some limbo between the spirit world and ours... no... that doesn't happen. Alma 40:11-14, he is in spirit prison, which is probably right here.
Fourth- shaking hands with angels. That is to know if a revelation from angels is from God... it also probably relates to deeper things which one learns in the house of the Lord.
As for Cain still alive... I like this article for the most part. Cain is quite dead. 1 Peter 3:20, only the 8 in the ark lived. And think about it, Lamech became master Mahan... which Cain was before... Cain had to be out of the way for that.
Use the scriptures, speculation isn't as correct.
I don't think President Kimball would have given the account of the sighting of the dark skinned , hairy personage that made himself known as Cain, if he did not believe it him self. In the book of Moses there is no account of how many years Cain lived, but an account is given on all other descendants of Adam. Cane told Patten he tried to end his life but could not. Cain roams the earth in misery, covered with hair and has dark skin, of this I testify, in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen
If Cain became a son of perdition, he must have gotten, prior to his sin and curse, a lot of knowledge and probably even translation as did later Enoch and his people. Then after, the greatest the hights the greatest the fall. His translation would have become a greater curse to him. Maybe them he was hunted as an animal by his descendents indeed.
OLIVEIRA FROM BRAZIL
If Cain had black skin and all humans except Noah and his family died in the flood how is it that black skin continued to exist if Cain did not continue to exist?
Ham son of Noah married Egyptus who was black and she was on the ark. That's how the black skin came through the flood. This is a fascinating and enlightening list of thoughts and ideas. Thank you.
Black skin curses are not unique to cain anyhow nor any other making as its been promised many times that different evils will receive different marks... In the BofM the lamanites are cursed with a black skin as well. The tower of babel came with its own scattering and curses as well, I'm sure all the diff skin tones we have now were mostly handed out then along with the confounding of languages.....
As for cain I would have to believe the recounting of the witness story by spencer w. kimball to be true considering his final status and ability to receive inspiration regardless of what out may have been at the time his book was published. I feel if there was anything contrary to what he had previously stated that has been so widely recanted among the church he would haver addressed it and retracted the story. The only problem is the fact that we don't know the actual physical status of cain in the story as its not that specific, but there is made mention he smells cain before he even notices cain walking bedside him, who knows if a scent is carried with one through the veil or if there are any physical attributes that we know in this plain that can also be attributed to spirits and such.... But it is known that satan rules here on earth along with his minions of wich cain surely is and therefore he assuredly roams this earth now.
I would like to exchange links with your site davesbigfootshow.blogspot.com
Is this possible?
Many Native American tribes have a legend of a man or being that fits the traditional concept of Cain, a man who couldn't die and who survived the flood--with animals feeding him along the way. This man, according to the Hopi, considers the American Continent as his own. Many of the Native tribes refer to Cain as the Trickster, in contrast to the Evil Spirit which is Satan. The Hopi Tribe is one that has a Cain legend. There are several others but I'm not in a position to reference any of this at the time. I posted this for general information purposes, reminding the reader that not all information about Cain comes from Christian sources.
Interesting tidbit on "smell". Joseph Smith taught that the spirit is capable of enjoying all the senses we feel in our physical body.
I'm still leaning to the idea that he is dead but may visit in spirit as a spirit of darkness.
I've heard countless stories from LDS members who recount being visited or seeing in dream or vision dead relatives who are currently in spirit prison and requesting that the temple work be done for them so that they may enter paradise. I mention this because it shows plausability that spirits in prison may be able to show themselves to us. I really don't know, but it may be possible.
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Josephs wife Asenath, the Egyptian, was a descendant of Egyptus, the black woman who was Hams wife, the son of Noah. She was the mother of Ephraim and Manasseh, whom most LDS claim through Patriarchal Blessings to be the descendant of. For your information, Cains blood runs through many races of people including Caucasian.
Ruth the Moabite who married Boaz was King Davids great Grandmother. The "Messiah, son of David, Christ himself, through Mary, descended from this line. Moabites descended from Cain.
Elder Orson Pratt an original member of the quorum of twelve apostles, stated that Noah built the ark beside the Mississippi river. LDS believe Adam and Eve lived on the North American continent. Assuming these statements have truth, I would venture to say that Cain killed Able here too and would begin his earthly wandering also. Is he bound to this Continent only? I don't know. It's his original home. From what I have read, Sasquatch give grunts squeaks groans growls and squeals and there are lots of them. The LDS account of Cain was that there was one of him and he spoke flawless English. Is Cain a Sasquatch? I don't think so. Is Cain dead. Yes, God is God of truth and can not lie. There were only 8 survivors of the flood, not 9.
Here is a thought: If Cain truly died then what is the point of having four immortal beings (John and the three Nephites) in the world?
The scriptures teach that there must be an opposition to all things. If there are immortal beings still abroad in the world, wouldn't they have to have a counterpart, to make sure there is an opposition in all things?
I think that the reason there were four people called to remain until the Lord returns is because each of them is responsible for a quarter of the world, to keep guard should Cain arise in their area. I also think that Cain was probably getting to be too powerful and that is why within the scope of a few months or years four people where ordained to remain in the flesh until the Lord comes again.
Again, these are just my thoughts and I have no scriptural references to base it on. It just seems like a logical conclusion given my thought pattern. Thanks.
One more comment that came to mind. It is my belief that only Heavenly Father can translate beings and that this is a blessing. Cain is a murderer and a son of perdition. I do not believe that Heavenly Father would have granted him such a blessing.
However, there is evidence in the New Testament that states that evil spirits can possess individuals. It is possible that Satan gave Cain that ability, therefore making him immortal, through his dark dealing, if not his original flesh.
Again, these are just thoughts and I have no scriptures to back them up other than already mentioned.
I cannot readily produce the scriptural references for the information that I am about to share. At this time, I can only vouch for its truth with a solemn promise. There will be sons of perdition that will have perfected, immortal bodies. This is evidenced by the fact that all including Cain, if he did die, will be resurrected. Additionally, we know that at the end of the millennium many of our resurrected brethren will once again rebel against Christ, only this time they will have perfect knowledge which will condemn them as sons of perdition for their treachery. It is a matter of doctrine that these beings with immortal bodies that will inhabit the abyss will suffer far more than even those like Satan, by virtue of the fact that they will be eternally plagued by the condemned who would attempt to posses them. Cain, having offered himself up to Lucifer, put himself in Lucifer's power. This would mean that Cain himself could be subject to possession by Lucifer and his spirits. With this in mind, I would assert that translation would represent a curse for Cain, not a blessing. While it is true that translated beings cannot feel physical pain, it does not mean that they are exempt from emotional and spiritual pain which God the Father even experiences.
ok pretty out of date but is midnight and feel like googleing mormon stuff.
great comments, excelent documentation, as always the apocrifa gives us a hand on a hard topic, and now that we know this my friends, i would like to close this case by saying that no matter how boring and maybe painfull for some of you engaged on hard topics people it might be, it is crystal clear, cain is death, nowhere on the scriptures is stated the he could not die but it says that he will bee cast from the presence of the lord and he will hid from HIM, now could you please realize and think a little harder !!!!!! there is no greater punishment and he says so - is more than i can bear -, now he sort of repented and felt kinda bad for what he had done, and more than anything he realized now that he had become a master mahan and wished this great secret to be kept or so maybe, because then we see that the next in line on this pretty satanic calling was lamech sort of like voldemort and windelward and the elder wand if you had read harry potter ......
this calling comes only by murder
Well DLM579, to defend the lineage of Epraim and his mother about not having mixed with the seed of Cain. Asenath, Josephs's wife, father was a priest of On. She was from the cit of On, or better known by it's Greek name, Heliopolis, or "City of the Sun." The ruling class of Egypt at the time were Semetic people, or people of the lineage of Shem, who still had the priesthood line. They ruled over the native Hamitic Egyptians. Asenath was therefore probably of the Semetic race and therefore did not carry the mark of cain. Ruth, and the moabites are also not holders of cain's blood. If you read Genesis, you learn about Lot. Lot was the son of Haran, Abraham's brother. Lot had incesteous relations with his daughters and had two kids with them. Moab and Ammon. So moabites were closer related to the lineage of shem then the lineage of ham. So it shows of the lineage from Adam down to the Savior of the world is free from the mark of cain.
How about this...Cain is alive, because he was banished from the FACE of the earth and INTO the earth. Study the hollow-earth theory, then read the scriptures a little more closely. Even the scriptures about the flood speak about all living things ON the earth, how about IN the earth? Like I said, read the scriptures a little more closely.
Aw, this was a really nice post. In idea I would like to put in writing like this additionally - taking time and actual effort to make a very good article… but what can I say… I procrastinate alot and by no means seem to get something done.
I can't dicuss/argue any of the biblical scriptures with you simply for lack of knowledge. However, I can tell you this. These people live in the woods around me and they have made contact with me. One evening one of them gave me the word "ENOCH". What does this mean? I do know there is the biblical Enoch and there was a book titled Enoch written by Autum Williams about the bigfoot.Which had a really good picture of one of them on the cover. Well a few weeks went by and I still did not know the meaning or the why behind the "ENOCH" message that he gave to me. Late one night, they let me know they were outside and wanted me to come out. So my husband and I went outside. We sat down and I began explaining to him how frustraited I was about this message. When out of no where,I felt this overwhelming LOVE. The purest love that only one could imagine. Then I was given the meaning to the message: "WE ARE SPIRITUAL AND THAT IS WHAT WE LOOK LIKE.". Believe me or not. This is my truth.
Update: I found his descendants in the video game Red Dead Redemption, Undead nightmare. lol In the game the character comes across the last of the Sasquatch.
Hope this brings some humor to the subject!
The crazy thing is, as time passes there are more and more accounts of people claiming to see big foot. there have been enough claims that it is being researched and investigated.
what really exists is the fight between good and evil, light and darkness. I think our best guide is to take what we find written in our scriptures and try not to speculate much further into what is unknown. However, it has been fun thinking about it.
Very interesting. Base on what was said, I believe Cain is not alive. Just mormon folklore.
Read the Book of Jubilees. Cain is definitely dead. Referring to the Book of Moses is not a valid source since Hugh Nimbly had a chance to read the papyri which JS translated from and there's no indication of such of a book in the translation.
One of the thinge I have always found interesting about the mystery of Cain is that it seems similar to the mystery of Adolf Hitler. An evil man that just disappeared and left conspiracy theories about where he ended his life. I could certainly imagine Hitler being a vagabond to the end of his life
I totally agree with Anonymous. And this is my personal opinion. Cain is still alive and is wandering among us. An individual who is not able to die. He's like a butterfly. He just turns into different states of being, I mean he gets old and returns to the state like when he was cursed. He lives in and moves to different places in this world.
Long time ago when I used to attend elementary school I had to walk through a cemetery One day I ran into a strange man: a very tall and big guy, he was in black or dark clothes, he also was wearing a hat. The hat was covering half of his face and he said something to me I did not understand. He mispronounced the words or his voice sounded like he couldn't speak properly. I speak spanish and of course what he said was not in Spanish. And I got the feeling this man was much like Cain. The man was standing right in front of me but never looked at me. I just thought he was a foreigner who had gotten lost in the middle of the graveyard. Any way I asked him if he needed to go to the nearest town or something and he just said something and definitely didn't understand I stepped aside and started to walk. I turned to see yhat strange guy and he was still there. Today I still remember that time and makes me believe that Cain is living in different cities or countries. He has to move to different places, so maybe this strange man I saw could have been Cain.
So I know this was posted a long time ago and you can make fun of me all you want but I believe the elite has lied to us for a long time about our earth and that the giants that roamed the earth in genesis and it mentions in genesis that they still are here. I think they live in center earth. I think that is where Cain was sent. It says in earth not on it. Sounds far fetched but open your mind and if you think of our earth thus way it would shed light on so much bible mystery and also all the secrets on earth. Technology..area 51..all the sinkholes and strange openings in earth. Underground tunnels..Bermuda triangle and other magnetic portals around earth..just do some research on it. Some of the sites talking about this are just rediculous but some of then make a lot of sense. I'm not saying its true but I think it's highly possible. What about the key to the underworld. I am one of the people who think the bible is literal and means exactly what it says, I've done tons of research trying to understand this and to me it's the big secret and the veil is being lifted. Also genesis refers to the giants as the sons of God but refers to us as sons of men, this also clears up and makes scripture make so much more sense. Oh and I read somewhere that one of the sons of Noah was not pure in blood meaning he could have had a child related somehow to the giants allowing the race to continue. He must have had a gene or something. Sounds crazy but look into it and apply it to your ???'s and see if it seems like the missing puzzle piece. I'm not into false teachings, I only seek truth and to me the bible clearly states this.
I posted somewhere on here about the possibility of an inner earth. Admiral Byrd flew in and saw giant people mammoths and all kinds of stuff he saw flying saucers in there and some of them were marked with swasticas. I'm really not sure about this theory but we are on here talking about a human that's been alive for like 5000 years so if y'all want to make any spence out of it do some research on the topic. The bible clearly states he sent cane in the earth banned from the face of the earth. The bible tO me means exactly what it says. The elites of this world have kept this a secret for a long time. Apparently it's where they get all the technology and I mean I could just go on and on. Hard to believe but truly sheds light on scripture and also tons of earths mysteries.
Sorry for all the typo's in a hurry. Stupid I phones
That is smart.
The Curse of Cain, Ham, The Lamanites, The peoples of Babel, etc....THEY ARE ALL DIFFERENT CURSES.
Cain's curse (dark skin) had nothing to do with the priesthood. It's only up to the point of Ham (who was white) who procreated with his Wife Egyptus (last surviving Caananite) that the Curses ever mingled.
That being said, Blacks do infact give birth to WHITE BABIES...not just Albino...but WHITE BABIES. The Sons of Ham can be both Black or White and who knows whatever other color...
Samuel was a Lamanite Prophet...so the cursed skin has little to do with the priesthood inibitations
Regardless of these facts, the Ban was lifted...but not the Curse. Go ahead and read the language Spencer W. Kimball used that finally allowed the Sons of Ham (Black or White) to hold the priesthood.
Mormons are not racist. They simply see the problem that darker skinned people have culturally.They oppose slavery and do not see them as brutes or animals because of their color. Mormons have always been taught to see every man as a child of God that deserves the dignity of being treated like a human being in every respect.
Remember, the Priesthood is purpose & responsibility, not power and revolution.
Ham placed a veil over his drunken father, Noah. Ham also defiled the Garments of Adam & Eve. There were probably deeper disagreements that Ham & Noah had with one another that are not spoken of.
Ultimately, Ham started his own Priesthood...his own Brotherhood.
Adam, then Cain, then Lamech, then Ham, then Babylon (which may still be Cain's/Lamechs Brotherhood...idk), then the Jaredite Insurrectionists, The Nephite/Lamanite Kishkumen (Gadianton Robbers), then the Templars -> Freemason, then the Illuminati, & then Misc.
There are all these Brotherhoods, Fraternities, & Secret Combinations that are not the original...
These things are more relevant to your life than Bigfoot/Sasquatch/Yeti.
I pose a question on the translated being comments- if there is truly opposition in all things- then it seems to me that it is very plausible we have "dark" translated beings.... There are many things which we do not understand.A translated being who takes the side of the Adversary may have a different form than those who are righteous. If the being in question obtained a physical who is to say they didn't keep that body? Of course this is all speculation. But if we are to take the opposition in all things to mean exactly what it says- then it is all things- including translate beings. Just some food for thought.
There are thousands of stories about Bigfoot sightings. All of them describe a being not unlike the being Patten's story. If not Cain, then maybe one of his progenitors. God did not remove his ability to have children. In todays world, if we were to see one. We would call it a Bigfoot or some other name for the thing. I do believe people are seeing something.
There are thousands of stories about Bigfoot sightings. All of them describe a being not unlike the being in Patten's story. If not Cain, then maybe one of his progenitors. God did not remove his ability to have children. In todays world, if we were to see one. We would call it a Bigfoot or some other name for the thing. I do believe people are seeing something.
This is wrong according to the book of Abraham.
Where would Cain be if he were still alive? Maybe his crime sentence was up. God only knows. We don't.
Maybe God gave him a second chance. To live a life free of murder.
I have thought about this Cain subject a lot over the years. Why would Apostle Spencer W Kimball put this mysterious story regarding Apostle Patten and Cain in his book, "Miracle of Forgiveness"? This was one of the very few books that was "Approved Reading" in the mission field, along with: The Standard Works, Jesus the Christ & The Articles of Faith. When Elder Kimball remarks on the poor status of Cain and than shares the story of Cain, I get the impression that Elder Kimball had a confirmation that this story was factual. People say that all flesh was killed, except for 8 on the ark and no one else survived the flood. Enoch didn't die and he survived the flood! (Along with a lot of other Saints.) Is it possible that there is opposition in all things and that there are translated evil beings, such as Cain? Translated beings can appear and disappear and even serve on other planets (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. pg 170) I feel it is possible that Cain's punishment was to wander as a vagabond for thousands of years on the earth and that he is very large, dirty and hairy; so people mistake him for some monster in the woods and/or mountains: Bigfoot, Yeti, etc. It is possible, yet not plausible.
Honestly, I've been hunting spirits and demons my entire life. If Cain wants to find someone to life his curse let me know.
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Points to ponder for whomsoever wrote this article "Is Cain Still Alive?": You said: "Let’s refer to the scripture found in Genesis 4:11-15—
“And now thou art cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother’s blood from thy hand; When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth. And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me. And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.”
You then unintentionally made an outright false statement by saying: "Two things about this passage: 1) The passage does not say nor mean that Cain would never die.
Look at the statement: It CLEARLY lays out the fact that Cain was outright "cursed FROM the earth" Mother Earth literally CLOSED her mouth and refused to allow Cain's accursed body to rest within her. and that she (mother Earth) opened her mouth to receive Abel's blood from Cain's hand. (Abel's cherished body was allowed mournfully to rest within her bosom)
Isaiah 14:19 KJV states (capitals added for emphasis):
But THOU ART CAST OUT OF THY GRAVE like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.
In other words Cain's ultimate curse was to wander the earth until every last murder was committed because he needed to see the mass destruction of humanity that this single, self-centered act had caused.
In other words Not one single solitary particle of Cain's rotting body (since he killed Abel) has been allowed to fall to the earth and decay by returning to mother earth. The filth and the stench and degradation caused by that one act are to stick to him like glue throughout the whole history of earth and though his body will be restored to perfection as God promised in the resurrection - the poison of what he did can never be removed from his soul and is entrenched in him throughout eternity because he outright refused to repent when he had the chance to do so.
what is the book of moses? Is that the book that was translated from the scrolls that were purchased from the gypsies?
Modern day egyptologists say no. Its all made up. Its a matter of time before the curtain falls.
Cain is "Perdition" and so will not be resurrected, will not receive even Telestial Glory, but will be cast into the abyss that is Perdition for those who know God but defy him to his face, i.e the sin against the Holy Ghose for which there is no forgiveness in this life or the next.
I would like to respond to the following comment made in 2011: "Josephs wife Asenath, the Egyptian, was a descendant of Egyptus, the black woman who was Hams wife, the son of Noah. She was the mother of Ephraim and Manasseh, whom most LDS claim through Patriarchal Blessings to be the descendant of. For your information, Cains blood runs through many races of people including Caucasian.
Ruth the Moabite who married Boaz was King Davids great Grandmother. The "Messiah, son of David, Christ himself, through Mary, descended from this line. Moabites descended from Cain.
March 3, 2011 at 2:21 AM
Almost every thing above is totally false. In the first place, Asenath was not of Egyptian blood or genes. She was a descendant of the Priest of On, who was a member of a group of people who entered Egypt just prior to when Abraham entered Egypt. They were Elamites who were cousins of the Israelites. Elam was a son of Shem. Therefore Abraham was able to give them the priesthood and the true temple ceremony. Abraham wrote his fragment of a book before he entered Egypt, while he was still in UR. Once he entered Egypt he realized that they were of his race and he could teach and convert them. The priest of On was of that lineage and his daughter was Asenath, "chosen from the foundations of the world to be Joseph's wife." On the other hand, the Moabites descended from Lot, a nephew of Abraham's. They are not descended from Cain but from Shem and from Abraham's father Terah.
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